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Talk:Riven/@comment-8733289-20131224042732/@comment-9008617-20140107224215
@Cliffshadow: "The reason why I bring up the same points? Because you CLEARLY ignore them." Where? Where do I clearly ignore your points? FFS, I've even gone as far as quoting you to show you the error of your ways. "Lee's shield doesn't scale with AP, any dumbass can see that." Like this for example. Hint: It does scale with AP (but that's the problem). "I'm talking about the seconds part, which makes all his abilities and AA's give him health. And since his E is AoE, it can give back a whole lot of health." ' Lee's E does 200 + 100% bonus AD. So even with a glass cannon Lee Sin build of IE (70), stacked BT (100), BC (55), Maw (60), mallet (30) that makes 315 bonus AD so Lee's E would do 515 dmg. And since you so earnestly pointed out, Lee Sin's E does '''AoE damage which means only 33% of the 25% spell vamp = 8.25% spell vamp. ' Meaning for every target that takes the full amount of Lee Sin's E (i.e. we're ignoring Magic Resist for glass cannon Lee's benefit), Lee Sin will SV '''42 health. So for Lee Sin to make up the 200 HP difference in shields, I told you Lee Sin needed to do 800 damage physically but I failed to mention that for the spell vamp aspect he would need to do hit about 20 targets with his E assuming no magic resist. So now your Lee Sin is down 130 energy out of 200 (i.e. he has 70/200 energy left) and he somehow managed to find 20 minions/champs with zero magic resist. Good job, Riven does that all again in 6 seconds while you wait about 9 to 10 seconds to do yours again. "'AA'ing inbetween can go a long way, atleast 1 AA makes his energy usage 90 (not taking energy regen/sec into account)."' An AA after a skill recovers 15 energy. Your shield + 2nd activation takes 80... Where are you getting 90 from? Also this is not even including using the E (another 50 energy) since you want to SV with it so badly... "If the enemy is going up to get a last hit, W Q in their face, profit?? (What I said in not even trying to understand what i'm saying...)." What you said in not even trying to understand what you're saying... what? XD My point still stands, you said using W guarantees Q and it simply does not. You're assuming that the enemy champ is just going to take the Q to the face and that there's a clear shot just because they're last hitting. You honestly don't see the folly in your statement? "I gave no reasons why SV is bad because it isn't, but I honestly prefer MoM because it gives AD, MR as well as a magic shield." Maw doesn't give HP or CDR and has less Magic Resist than Spirit Visage. Itemization is situational but my point was to address CDR because CDR is a strong stat on Riven which your item has zilch. You could rely on Maw's 400 shield which only blocks Magic Damage every 90 seconds... Or you could get 20% CDR from Spirit Visage which drops your E's 6 second CD by another 1.2 seconds which even with 200 bonus AD will shield Riven for 400 which blocks both AD and AP damage every 4.8 seconds with just SV or every 3.6 seconds with max CDR. (Also, SV has +15 MR, +400 HP, +20 HP regen, +20% bonus LS/SV, and it costs 450 gold less than Maw). "Blue ezreal is called so because all the items are blue, Lucidity boots, Muramana, Iceborn Gauntlet, Last Whisper, Spirit of the Lizard Elder and 1 more item which I forgot. Was it BotRK?" There have been variations on what Blue Ezreal build is but in your poor attempt to address spammability of Riven with CDR which I said was easy to itemize for (i.e. Lucidity, BC, SV/Masteries + Runes), you brought up essentially Blue Ezreal. You do remember you stating Ezreal's Q CD was 1.4 seconds after landing a Q, right? Yeah... kinda sucks when people keep track of what you say, huh? "Yep, not going to win an argument when comparing the 2 together. But I wasn't comparing the 2, I was comparing shields in the beginning but SOMEONE (>_>) was bringing up mana costs as well and telling "They have mana costs, they're worse than this because it has none"." What...? Let me get this straight. So we were talking about shields and the issue about resource cost came up and you decided you were too stubborn to agree that resourceless is better than being tied to a resource (which should be obvious) so you went ahead and argued anyways that mana/energy is better than being resourceless? Smart. "And go ahead, ignore the next sentence after I said she wasn't a good engager. That's what you always like to do, right? She needs to find an opportunity to cover the distance of E and flash for the quick initiate as well being able to maximize the range of her melee stun." Uhm, what? What exactly is a "good engager" in your book? Let me guess, you're going to list off some of the best engagers in the game and state how they make Riven's engaging skills pale. You even said Lee Sin has to wait for an opportunity to flash and engage... which is exactly what you said about Riven too. Why does that make one champ a better engager and the other one not? Once Riven is in your team, she can AoE stun and AoE knock up... Lee Sin? Well, he's got his AoE movement and AS slow but the AS slow really only affects AA'ers like the ADC. Not saying Lee Sin's not godly in his own way but you're wrong again about Riven. "So we agree to disagree in the point of who can burst who first between riven and wukong. Hurray!" Show me where did I agreed to disagree? Although Riven vs Wu proves absolutely nothing, UNOvvrn and I both gave you scenarios and the respective numbers and math behind it... You just seemed to have... I dunno... ignored facts. Quick! Better project this onto someone else! "And I assumed he didn't know because he had said something along the lines of wukong only being a tanky DPS initiator. So again, pretty dumb thing to address." UNOvvrn didn't actually. Maybe you're referring to what Hespecter said. You said, "The fact that wukong has the option of going tanky DPS, assasin-ish or even full tank. Riven lacks any of those options, its either get fed or go home." You brought up the roles that Wu plays and you made it sound like no one knew that Wu can be bursty especially with his ult... I mean, who isn't bursty when you factor in their ult? Soraka I guess. XD "3 people shut me down? U N Ovvrn? Chose whatever he wanted and failed to take any other points of relveance. Lawli? Right, pretty big statement in terms of shutting me down there. Hespector? Nope, lee isn't only a jungler but a top laner as well. And he took values for the shield strentgh, not the stats they both provided (AD for janna and distance for riven)." No offense, but I'm going to assume English isn't your first or only (I sincerely hope not) language. I'm having a really hard time following what you're saying (which is why I asked you to be more coherent) because your sentences seem really fragmented and broken up. Case and point, "U N Ovvrn? Chose whatever he wanted and failed to take any other points of relveance." Choose whatever he wanted? What does that even mean? You're throwing in usernames and then rambling like someone with dementia... Look, has anyone even agreed with you in the last 3 days? :/ "Also, go right ahead and ignore the points I had said about your insec kick and AS stats for champions and all ^_^. You mean this..? "The Insec kick uses W or flash to get into position, just landing a Q is not enough to kick a carry into your team. Either Q - Flash/W - Kick, W - Flash - Kick or something along those lines" I just didn't want to embarass you... I mean, I dunno, I think it's common knowledge that the insec kick involves getting behind the target and kicking them towards your team. I don't know why you bothered even bringing this up... I merely stated that Lee Sin's W requires an allied target to jump to and so if you're engaging in the insec kick you usually have to plant a ward or have an allied champion behind the target which makes Lee Sin's engage limited in that sense whereas Riven's E requires no target (which is another reason why it's superior and you've still yet to accept or address it). "Honestly, its become like the lissandra page, clouded with comments which stray away from each other until it talks about mechanice of different champs." I really had to scratch my head on this one since it's been months. But yeah, I see your English skills haven't improved much since then. You make the same stupid arguments based on opinion and when you do bring up other champions and compare ONE thing in Champion X's kit to ONE thing of another Champion Y's kit (which is something you should never do) you get shut down. You got shut down then and you got shut down now. "So i'm ending my comments on this post riiiiiiight here. Peace." Which is exactly what you said last post too... sigh. Pick your fights better.